In this bonus episode closing out Season 2 of Inside America’s Best Cities, Mike Christenson of Applied Geographic Solutions shares about how the right data can have a big impact on your efforts to draw talent and businesses.
Tell us about Applied Geographic Solutions (AGS).
AGS is a leading supplier of demographic and geographic data for both the U.S. and Canada. We were founded back in 1996, and our data team has more than 60 years combined experience creating data. Currently, we have over 40,000 demographic variables in our library that cover anything from basic demographic data to how much people spend going out to eat every month, or even crazy stuff like watching Stranger Things. Basically, if you can think of it, we probably have data on it. And we work with companies like Livability, as well as other leading demographic and GIS companies to help end users make sense of our data.
What are some common misconceptions when it comes to commonly used data?
Most people assume that the free data you can find from the Census Bureau and the American Community Survey are sufficient. In fact, both of those data sets have large irregularities that can skew your work. The census, especially the 2020 census, had severe limitations due to the introduction of differential privacy. In order to protect individuals’ privacy, the census introduced intentional errors to make the population different from the actual reporting. What ended up happening is that they created these segments of data. And the funny thing is that we gave them names. We gave it like the Lord of the Flies, where there are no adults but lots of kids, and we call it the Mermaids, which were homes over bodies of water, etc. If you don’t properly clean up these issues, the data that you use will not be usable. We have a whole white paper outlining these issues. Also, the American Community Survey continues to have a smaller and smaller pool of respondents, leading to significant gaps.
But companies like Applied Geographic or several others out there, our whole business is taking that information and modeling it to a current year estimate and a five-year projection. That’s the whole game. And people tend to think they can’t afford that, but when we look at Applied Geographic to get population current year estimates across the entire country as low as the block group, we’re talking $50. If you want to add in consumer expenditures for a particular area, we’re talking, per variable, another $50. So for $300, you can come in with a current year estimate and have some very good data. And people do it all the time.
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Mike [00:00:06]: Data helps you highlight the best your community has to offer. You know, looking at data, you can identify your community’s high points. Maybe you have a vibrant workforce, lots of young families, or low crime. Data helps you identify those key demographic areas that you can highlight to attract businesses to your area.
Amanda [00:00:25]: That’s the voice of Mike Christensen, senior vice president with Applied Geographic Solutions. He joins us today for a special bonus episode in our season to chat about all things data and how it can help fuel your community’s growth. I’m Amanda Ellis, and you’re listening to Inside America’s Best Cities, a podcast for Chamber economic development and talent attraction professionals. This is the last episode of our season, but we’ll be back soon with season three. Be sure to subscribe so you’re in the know when we release our next episode. And with that, let’s jump in. Thank you, Mike, so much for joining us on Inside America’s best cities. We’re super excited to pick your data brain.
Mike [00:01:12]: Oh, absolutely. Thanks so much for having us today.
Amanda [00:01:15]: So tell us a little bit about AGS, Applied Geographic Solutions, and a little bit about what you all do.
Mike [00:01:21]: Well, AGS is a leading supplier of demographic and geographic data for both US and Canada. We are founded back in 1996, and our data team has more than 60 years combined experience creating data. Currently, I believe we have over 40,000 demographic variables in our library that cover anything from basic demographic data to how much people spend eating out every month, or even crazy stuff like watching Netflix, Stranger Things. Basically, if you can think of it, we probably have data on it. And we work with companies like Livability, as well as other leading demographic and GIS companies to help end users make sense of our data.
Amanda [00:02:05]: Numbers can be a little scary for some of us non number folks, so that’s why we’re really glad that entities like you exist.
Mike [00:02:12]: Yes, absolutely.
Amanda [00:02:13]: So a lot of our listeners work in the Chamber space, the economic development space. A lot of those people are responsible for marketing their communities, promoting why they’re the best place for talent for businesses, or for people’s preferences. How can data help them do a better job of positioning their community as the best place for the audiences they’re trying to reach?
Mike [00:02:33]: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Great question. I’ve had the experience of being a part of this in two different areas. First, obviously, is AGS and selling directly to these Chamber and economic development industries, and then is my former life where I used AGS within our software application and assisted in consulting a lot of these Chamber and economic development industries. AGS has been used in the economic development since the very beginning. We’ve partnered with large companies that focus on major metropolitan areas and even smaller companies that aim to assist small towns grow their small businesses. No matter what the size of your area, the same databases are used to attract new businesses and residents. Our basic demographics, estimates and projections, crime risk, a big one is the retail potential and gap, quality of life, et cetera. We’ve also done some modeling for economic development, but right off the bat, I think of the retail potential and gap.
Amanda [00:03:42]: Our listers also sometimes find themselves running community surveys, things like that, to collect data themselves, even if they are not necessarily data stats, methodology, experts. What advice would you have for those folks to do that in the most… the best way possible, with just a lot of those little things that you wouldn’t know if you weren’t an expert in those areas. Maybe throw in some free resources that might be helpful if they don’t have the budget to engage an expert like you.
Mike [00:04:11]: All right, well, data helps you highlight the best your community has to offer. Looking at data, you can identify your community’s high points. Maybe you have a vibrant workforce, lots of young families, or low crime. Data helps you identify those key demographic areas that you can highlight to attract businesses to your area. With data, you can also show the needs of your community by identifying gaps in the market to attract new businesses. Crazy enough, COVID also transitioned many people away from the traditional five-day work week schedule. And more than ever, people are working from home. This leaves two major opportunities for economic development. First, more people are choosing where to live and moving farther away from the city center. This presents an opportunity for rural areas to attract new residents. Second, city centers need to find ways to revitalize and rejuvenate. If there are vacancies. Data can also help find ways to do that.
Amanda [00:05:15]: So AG has partnered with us at Livability this year on one of our biggest pieces of content. Our annual Top 100 Best Places to Live. This is our 10th year of producing that in 2023. Essentially, we’re looking at things like amenities, local economy, cost of living, education, health, a bunch of different factors that we use to determine what we would say are the Top 100 best small to mid-sized cities to live in. So we revamped some of that with your all’s help. Can you talk a little bit about that process?
Mike [00:05:47]: Yes. Oh, my gosh. This was a fun project for our team to work on. What we did was boost the rankings with our data and new variables. By adding additional variables such as crime risk and enhancing the data that Livability was using, the Top 100 list becomes an even more useful tool for finding the best places to live. Being able to determine what matters most to any given city is impossible, but we can look nationwide at what is most important for attracting businesses and residents to any given place. We weighed those variables like economic leisure, activities, crime, et cetera. We can really shake out a ranking of the best places to live. It is a really interesting process, and what we did for Livability is completely unique to any other rankings that we have been a part of. Crime is a category that we added this year for you all. It seems top of the mind for a lot of people who are watching the news right now. Personal crime is, of course, important when you determine where you want to live. But if property crime is high, especially in commercial real estate, then businesses will close, and the quality of life in those areas decreases because of the access to shops and restaurants become much more scarce.
Amanda [00:07:08]: What are some common misconceptions, Mike, when it comes to commonly used data? Just things you might hear people say or in the media that just get on your nerves because you know more about it than the average person.
Mike [00:07:20]: Yeah. Well, most people assume that the free data that you can find from the Census Bureau and the American Community Survey are sufficient. In fact, both of those data sets have large irregularities that can skew your work. The census, especially the 2020 census, had severe limitations due to the introduction of differential privacy. In order to protect individuals’ privacy, the census introduced intentional errors to make the population different from the actual reporting. What ended up happening is that they created these segments of data. And the funny thing is that we gave them names. We gave it like the Lord of the Flies, where there are no adults but lots of kids, and we call it the Mermaids, which were homes over bodies of water, et cetera. If you don’t properly clean up these issues, the data that you use will not be usable. We have a whole white paper outlining these issues at appliedgeographic.com that you can take a look at that will really dive deep on that. Also, the ACS continues to have a smaller and smaller pool of respondents, leading to significant gaps. And again, the ACS being the American Community Survey
Amanda [00:08:44]: Some of those sources you just mentioned are the ones that people would commonly go to first when they’re just looking for an easy source to find something. I know, like, BLS. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is another one. What alternatives would you suggest?
Mike [00:08:55]: You know, it’s crazy. A lot of people do go to the American Community Survey or the Census because, honestly, that’s all they know. That’s what they’re told. When you Google, that’s what comes up. But companies like Applied Geographic or several others out there, that their whole business is taking that information and modeling it to a current year estimate and a five-year projection. That’s the whole game. And people tend to think, oh, that can be a little bit expensive, or we can’t afford that, but it really isn’t. When we look at Applied Geographic to get population current year estimates across the entire country as low as the block group, we’re talking $50. Right? You want to add in consumer expenditures for a particular area. We’re talking, per variable, another $50. So for $300, you can come in with a current year estimate and have some very good data. And people do it all the time.
Amanda [00:09:56]: Okay, so just being aware that the barriers to getting some expert support may not be as high as people might think.
Mike [00:10:02]: Absolutely.
Amanda [00:10:03]: That’s really good to know. Would you like to throw out any examples, Mike, or talk about any kind of mini case studies of work you’ve done with chambers or with economic development groups?
Mike [00:10:13]: Absolutely. So manufacturing, as well as office space is also a big customer of our demographic data. You find a lot of them dealing with our channel partners. We deal with a lot of GIS applications out there that deliver our data for your office and industrial businesses. And a lot of times it is to go ahead and find talent and find out where they can build a plant or where they can build an office or relocate an office. And a big part of that is what they’re doing is they will take the addresses of their clients or I’m sorry, of their employees, and they will append it to a zip code. For privacy purposes, they don’t put a dot on the map to where their actual employees live, but rather they’re appending it to a zip code. So imagine looking at a pretty map and seeing a number inside every zip code. Then they’ll use tools from AGS or another GIS provider out there that create most likely drive times, and they will say, how far can someone get within 30 minutes of our business? Because quite honestly, nobody really wants to drive more than 30 minutes to get to their office if they don’t have to. So they want to understand, if they relocate to a new area, what does that 30 minutes’ drive time look like? How much of their existing employees fall within that 30 minutes, and then also within that 30 minutes’ drive time boundary? What is the workforce that is there? How many people are currently employed? What’s the potential of people that could be employed? Are they white collar? Are they blue collar? What industries are they in? Those are things that we can break out, and it really gives a clear picture of what that workforce is and the potential.
Amanda [00:12:03]: Are there any other specific data sets that come to mind in terms of what those types of manufacturing or back-office entities might be looking for when they’re making site selection decisions?
Mike [00:12:14]: There’s quite a few out there, but really, I think it’s just keeping it simple. Sometimes too much data will cloud what really needs to happen. Right. And like I said, we can come up with all kinds of data. Like we said earlier, I could tell you how many people are watching Stranger Things in an evening, but at the end of the day, people need to understand it’s still model data I’ve always looked at demographics as a way of getting off the fence. Our goal is to put you in an area and help you eliminate 80% of the market so that you really could take the time and do some old-fashioned site selection work. This was taught to me in my previous life from some of the best brokers, commercial brokers in the industry. They would tell me how they would sit in a restaurant and count cars taking left, how many cars took a right, how many cars past that point, what they were wearing coming in? Were they white collar, were they blue collar? That’s your true site selection and you’re never going to get away from that demographic. Companies like Applied Geographic, we’re trying to assist them. We’re trying to eliminate 80% of that area and allow them to focus on that top 20% to get in there and do that old fashioned skill. So when we look at these additional data sets, I think population is a big one. There are some other data sets out there that they may use, and that’s zoning, right? And then obviously there’s the factor of dealing with your local commercial broker as well. But attracting these different companies, you got to and this is, again, going back to keeping it simple. If you’re a worker, what brings you to an area? Right? So first off, I’m probably going to look at the livability score, right? That’s where I’m looking. I’m going to your top 100 list. My first thought is my family. Is my family going to be safe? Are they going to be happy? That’s my first. So as an employer, you need to look at those things. What areas are you going to be going into that mirror those attributes? And then second of all, once you’re there now, let’s start to figure out where the people are and are they the right fit? We deal with major retailers across the country as well as industrial, and their biggest concern right now is crime. So I definitely would say crime risk. Crime Risk, without a doubt, is our most popular data set. We take the Uniform Crime Risk Report and take in local incident data and kind of blend that together using our other demographics. And we figure out down to a block, which is typically a collection, I believe around 60 houses, to figure out what the crime is in that area.
Amanda [00:14:47]: Yeah, those are great points, especially about some of those livability components that, again, with talent attraction, you have to have the things people want and what they want in a place to live. And that’s bigger than work, especially these days.
Mike [00:15:00]: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s another big item right there. Is that there’s a lot of challenges for the workforce because of the remote working. Now everybody is saying that CEOs are starting to call in their employees back into the office. But those are the key things why you stay away from the 2020 Census or the American Community Survey. Those are snapshots and times versus companies like us. We do two updates a year. We do our A release and a B release of the current year estimates and the five-year projections. So basically every six months we’re coming out with a new number that’s identifying how many people are actually moving back into the city, working at those businesses or staying at home.
Amanda [00:15:44]: What is a recent data finding, Mike, that has surprised you? And this could be anything. It doesn’t have to be applicable to this conversation.
Mike [00:15:53]: There’s lots of really cool data out there these days. I’m always blown away on the data set that we have. So again, 40,000 demographic variables. We could go all day on that. Some of the cool data out there in the industry right now is people using mobility data and it’s going ahead and using cellular phones and understanding the movement patterns where people live, where that phone sits at night, where they stop during the course of the day. The pattern, how they got from point A to point B, what retail at locations they stopped. There’s the traffic count data. Traffic count data is getting far more advanced with mobility data. It’s making it even better. But traffic counts. There’s companies out there that are using the GPS signals within the vehicles to figure out how many cars are coming by rather than your traditional tube on the ground and counting tires that roll over it. The important thing about this though is especially municipalities, they will run across one of these data sets and they will be sold that that is the data set that is going to save their world and that couldn’t be further from the truth. It takes a marriage or a harmony of multiple data sets coming together to paint a picture and every one of them present their own note in the harmony. Mobility data provides an amazing trade area, right? If I want to put a convenience store I’m probably going to put that on the right side of the road of people going into the workplace because they’re going to stop in. They’re going to grab a cup of coffee, a breakfast sandwich, fill up their gas and then hop back on the road and continue on. So that’s where the whole harmony comes in. You really have to understand things like traffic counts, things like the mobility data, things like demographics and put them together and not put everything on one. Also understand that some pieces of data may not be around forever. Luckily for AGS, demographics are a staple and will continue to be the staple. You can talk to any retailer, interview any retailer or I would say economic development and they will tell you the exact same thing. It has to be there, right? But there are some data that may not be around forever just because of different laws that may come into play or how you can use it depending on privacy. And so that’s the reason why you should never get stuck in one area, including demographics. Make sure you balance it with a number of pieces out there and utilize everything that the industry has to offer right now.
Amanda [00:18:21]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I’ve never thought about that before, like which side of the road you’re on and how hard it is to get in and out. But that makes sense.
Mike [00:18:28]: Yeah. Once you figure it out, it starts to drive you nuts because now your typical drive into work turns into a what were they thinking? Why is it on that side of the road? Why is there a stoplight there? I can’t get in there. It becomes a nightmare in your mind. So knowing it is fun, but at the same time it can be a burden.
Amanda [00:18:47]: Yeah, that’s funny. So I always ask a fun wrap up question, where are you based? And if you had to give one bucket list item that someone visiting there should do, what would it be?
Mike [00:18:58]: Oh, that’s a good one. So I spent half my life in Phoenix, Arizona. I spent half my life in Wisconsin. And we are on the verge of packing up and moving to Sarasota, Florida. Like the rest of the east coast right now, haha, there’s a massive population shift going to Florida. I’ll give you two. Okay. Because it wouldn’t be fair. I got to show love to two of my states. I would say the first is Dor County, Wisconsin. If you’re looking at the state of Wisconsin, people always say put your hand out in front of you and your thumb is the peninsula that stretches out. That is Dor County and it is probably one of the most gorgeous places I have been. And it’s a bunch of small little postcard towns that you’re going to drive through all the way to the tip of the peninsula. And every single town has these small wineries, amazing shops. And it’s crazy to think, but being from Wisconsin, so many people will fly in and visit that area. It’s not unusual to see a celebrity up there. So Dor County. Phoenix is gorgeous. God, I love Phoenix. I would say without a doubt. And I get it’s kind of a tourist trap and many people have heard it, but I think Sedona is gorgeous, especially if you’re really into anything on the spiritual side. Sedona is the place to be.
Amanda [00:20:33]: awesome. I haven’t hit Sedona yet, but I will have to add that to my travel list. Thank you so much, Mike. That was a lot of great data info for some of us that are not as blessed to feel super comfortable with a number stuff. So really appreciate you coming on to share with us.
Mike [00:20:46]: And we really appreciate you having us on today.
Amanda [00:20:53]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast where we take you inside America’s best cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and midsize cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at [email protected] until next time, from Livability, I’m Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America’s most promising places.
